(Picture from here.)
Friday 8pm Biblical Themes and Religion in Genre Fiction
Jeff Carver, Moderator
Walter Hunt
Dani Kollin
Steven Popkes
Margaret Ronald
A good panel. Jeff did a wonderful job of moderating. There were several remarks about how respectful of religion the panel was-- which meant my tongue was bleeding a couple of times. Of course, my cynical side might say that all of the trouble with the Danish cartoons might have had an influence.
I was surprised by how many self-professed practicing Christians there were in both the panel and the audience.
I didn't respond to one statement made by Dani Kollin. He pointed out that he accepted the point of view that humans needed a moral code brought down from a higher power. My immediate response was that this was exactly what humans did not need. That, in fact, this idea was the most harmful aspect of religion because it gave inappropriate credibility and power to one moral code over another. I felt that moral codes had to be achieved through negotiation-- how else to get those that burned out the Danish offices to back off since they were, in fact, fulfilling their moral code.
But I didn't want to derail the conversation.
Notes:
1) Multiple bibles. We tend to treat the local bible (Hebrew/Christian bible) as *the* bible and others as mythology. E.g., Michael Moorcock's Behold the Man vs. Roger Zelazny's Lord of Light.
2) Vast difference between pov of Hebraic bible and New Testament. Colleague relationship vs. submission. Jesus on the cross vs. Moses pursuading God not to give up on the Hebrews.
3) Bible stories are still useful fodder: Job, Archibald MacLeish. Fable for Savior and Reptile. Norman Mailer's rewrite of the New Testament. James Morrow. Stephen Brust's To Reign in Hell. The Sparrow, Russel. Hyperion, Simmons. East of Eden, Steinbeck. Some of Neil Gaiman's work.
4) Cultural or local bible stories (as opposed to mythological bible stories) presume familiarity with the root material. A play about Job (MacLeish) presupposes the audience is familiar with the material and plays with, either in opposition or support, with the original material. Neil Gaiman. James Morrow. Lamb (Christopher Moore) does this also.
5) Mythological bible stories (i.e., Lord of Light) use the mythology either as explicit metaphor or as a voyage of discovery. (Tim Powers. John Crowley.)
6) Is "the bible", either culturalor mythological, a means to explore the mechanism of religion? (James Blish, Case of Conscience. Cordwainer Smith, Akhnaton, etc.) Is religion a good material for investigation? What does it say about humans that most humans on the planet have a religion of some sort?
7) Are the different bibles a means to investigate different religious approaches?
8) What stories in the (local) bible are good material?
Esther
Zacharias (Firesign movie equates Z to Siddhartha.)
Moses (Zora Neale Hurston, Man of the Mountain)
Abraham
Esau (of Jacob and Esau)
Jonah
Sin and Redemption
9) Issues with depictions of biblical pop morality and actual biblical morality-- actual morality can vary according to when that portion of the bible was written. Some of it is quite cruel.
10) Dawkins has stated (documented in TEDTalks) that his activism was triggered by 9/11 which, as he sees it, was a religious act. He's done with fundamentalism.
11) Erik the Generic Cleric-- I think I can attribute that one to Margaret Ronald.
12) Red Dwarf: There must be a machine heaven. Where do all the pocket calculators go?
================================
Wall of Idiots
Friday 8pm Biblical Themes and Religion in Genre Fiction
Jeff Carver, Moderator
Walter Hunt
Dani Kollin
Steven Popkes
Margaret Ronald
A good panel. Jeff did a wonderful job of moderating. There were several remarks about how respectful of religion the panel was-- which meant my tongue was bleeding a couple of times. Of course, my cynical side might say that all of the trouble with the Danish cartoons might have had an influence.
I was surprised by how many self-professed practicing Christians there were in both the panel and the audience.
I didn't respond to one statement made by Dani Kollin. He pointed out that he accepted the point of view that humans needed a moral code brought down from a higher power. My immediate response was that this was exactly what humans did not need. That, in fact, this idea was the most harmful aspect of religion because it gave inappropriate credibility and power to one moral code over another. I felt that moral codes had to be achieved through negotiation-- how else to get those that burned out the Danish offices to back off since they were, in fact, fulfilling their moral code.
But I didn't want to derail the conversation.
Notes:
1) Multiple bibles. We tend to treat the local bible (Hebrew/Christian bible) as *the* bible and others as mythology. E.g., Michael Moorcock's Behold the Man vs. Roger Zelazny's Lord of Light.
2) Vast difference between pov of Hebraic bible and New Testament. Colleague relationship vs. submission. Jesus on the cross vs. Moses pursuading God not to give up on the Hebrews.
3) Bible stories are still useful fodder: Job, Archibald MacLeish. Fable for Savior and Reptile. Norman Mailer's rewrite of the New Testament. James Morrow. Stephen Brust's To Reign in Hell. The Sparrow, Russel. Hyperion, Simmons. East of Eden, Steinbeck. Some of Neil Gaiman's work.
4) Cultural or local bible stories (as opposed to mythological bible stories) presume familiarity with the root material. A play about Job (MacLeish) presupposes the audience is familiar with the material and plays with, either in opposition or support, with the original material. Neil Gaiman. James Morrow. Lamb (Christopher Moore) does this also.
5) Mythological bible stories (i.e., Lord of Light) use the mythology either as explicit metaphor or as a voyage of discovery. (Tim Powers. John Crowley.)
6) Is "the bible", either culturalor mythological, a means to explore the mechanism of religion? (James Blish, Case of Conscience. Cordwainer Smith, Akhnaton, etc.) Is religion a good material for investigation? What does it say about humans that most humans on the planet have a religion of some sort?
7) Are the different bibles a means to investigate different religious approaches?
8) What stories in the (local) bible are good material?
Esther
Zacharias (Firesign movie equates Z to Siddhartha.)
Moses (Zora Neale Hurston, Man of the Mountain)
Abraham
Esau (of Jacob and Esau)
Jonah
Sin and Redemption
9) Issues with depictions of biblical pop morality and actual biblical morality-- actual morality can vary according to when that portion of the bible was written. Some of it is quite cruel.
10) Dawkins has stated (documented in TEDTalks) that his activism was triggered by 9/11 which, as he sees it, was a religious act. He's done with fundamentalism.
11) Erik the Generic Cleric-- I think I can attribute that one to Margaret Ronald.
12) Red Dwarf: There must be a machine heaven. Where do all the pocket calculators go?
================================
Wall of Idiots
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